Blowback Operated vs Recoil Operated Pistols What is the difference between blowback operated and recoil operated pistols? For this Smith & Wesson Shield, the locking lug is this shelf here on top of the barrel that locks into the ejection port on the slide. General. The recoil spring is now compressed and when the slide can’t go any further, the spring forces the slide to start closing. NAVIGATION MENU Navigation Menu. What is the difference between blowback operated and recoil operated pistols? This is because there is a wide range of manufacturers, makes, and models available in the market place these days. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. General Handgun Topics. You can do the same thing with a 9 mm pistol and there are many out there. And that tends to be true even when the blowback gun is heavier. I actually can’t think of any centerfire handguns designed this century that use a straight blowback action. 2. Recent Posts & Threads . And, then a little further down…in case there’s any confusion as to how the barrel moves backward…and there often is. Short-recoil vs. blowback. Raven1st said: ↑ I have never heard or seen this M9 slide issue you are talking about. We have a cartridge. But if I take this one apart, you can see that the barrel is not attached to the frame and the recoil spring is below the barrel on a guide rod. Like all modern firearms, the cycle starts when a firing pin hits the primer which ignites the propellant or powder inside the cartridge case [1]. Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear. The most common gas-powered gun is the gas-blowback, when fired the power behind the recoil that is created by the gas provides an impression of handling a real firearm. Why does the barrel look crooked in my pistol? German Geiger GRP Roller Delayed Blowback Pistol. It’s blowback! While the bullet is still in there, the pressure is very high. You can bring recoil into play by simply throwing a baseball, but for this discussion, we’ll just stick with guns. All Rights Reserved. The recoil impetus is used to drive the breechbolt backward. On the way back, it picks up a fresh cartridge from the magazine and comes to rest again in the forward position. MENU MENU. They are blowback pistols chambered for high pressure calibers. I was surprised and how much more felt recoil the blowback Colt has over either of the recoil operated pistols. It’s a CZ83 chambered for .380 ACP. A brief description is in order: Last week, I mentioned that recoil operated guns usually have less felt recoil than blowback guns of the same size and caliber. Powertac Warrior G4 flashlight/floodlight. What we want to establish is minimum felt recoil and then find the blowback action CO2 pistol that most closely duplicates it. They operate by using green gas either stored in the magazine or on-board to compress the air used to force the bb out of the barrel. Blowback operated firearms usually have more recoil than similarly chambered locked breech firearms. They're both recoil operated. Beretta is among the few companies currently making non-Browning-style recoil-operated pistols. We get into some of the finer details and a touch of the history of handgun development. Ambidextrous; Left Hand; Arrow / Pellet ; Automatic. After one more frame [5 & 6], the barrel has dropped down to separate from the slide so the case can eject. It tells you how the weapon is designed to be semi automatic.. A ‘gas operated’ weapon has a channel the allows some of the gas from the barrel to push upon a piston which moves the block to the rear, drawing out the expended casing. Bersa Thunder 380) are far more snappy/have more felt recoil than recoil operated handguns (i.e. Trouble Shooting. I've owned pistols with both actions and have noticed typically that blowback handguns (i.e. If the slide were to open while the pressure is still high, the wall of the case would no longer be supported by the chamber. 1911 : Frame Assembly. There seems to be a misunderstanding of the similarities and the differences between these two basic designs. Roller-delayed blowback operation differs from roller-locked recoil operation as seen in the MG 42 and gas operated roller locked, as seen in the Gerät 03 and Gerät 06. Check out the latest ammo deals at Lucky Gunner. Force forward still drives the bullet and force backward still drives the slide. One is the blowback; while the other is known as recoil operated. There are pistols that operate on a simple blowback or “straight” blowback principle, and there are those that operate on the locked breech, recoil operated principle which I prefer to call unlocked breech and locked breech blowback, respectively…and the locked breech pistol is more accurately described as a Delayed Blowback, but that’s meat for another discussion. I've often described a straight blowback operation as "Unlocked Breech Recoil Operated" and recoil operation as "Locked Breech Delayed Blowback." The only difference..the ONLY difference…is in the method used to delay the breech opening until the bullet has exited and pressures drop to safe levels. A lot of different factors contribute to felt recoil but my guess is that recoil-operated guns transfer the recoil force to the shooter’s hand over a longer period of time. So I apologize in advance to all of you physics and engineering people if I don’t get all of the terminology quite right. Blowback .380s (9 mm short) with blowback operation have harsher recoil than similarly sized compact pistols in 9 mm P, due to the latter having a locked breech design. The Automag, the Wildey and a few others are gas operated. Gatling-style crank-operated reloading uses continuous circular motion imparted by the operator to fire cartridges in succession. And the Beretta PX4 has a rotating barrel design. Noah_6 Active Member. And there it is. The additional felt recoil occurs from the heavy bolt reciprocating back and forth. 1911 : Detailed Disassembly. There are pistols that operate on a simple blowback or “straight” blowback principle, and there are those that operate on the locked breech, recoil operated principle which I prefer to call unlocked breech and locked breech blowback, respectively…and the locked breech pistol is more accurately described as a Delayed Blowback, but that’s meat for another discussion. The two are locked together. With a locked breech/recoil operated pistol, you have a barrel and a slide and a cartridge and you have the same series of events that occur when you pull the trigger. That pressure forces the bullet out of the case and down the barrel [3], but that pressure is going in all directions and it will take the path of least resistance, so it’s also pushing the case against the slide [4]. No products in the cart Close. Basically, we are looking at what’s happening in that brief instant after the round discharges when the slide moves to the rear and back again. The slide moves a little slower and that makes … These two forces are of equal magnitude and they occur at the same instant. Charter Arms Bulldog, guard dog in your pocket. We can’t see the case yet because the barrel is moving with the slide. Excepting guns with noticeable … if a pistol has a barrel that moves a short distance with the … They are generally simpler to manufacture. Enter your email address to subscribe and receive notifications by email. HANDGUNS. Ruger lcp) of the same size or even smaller, firing the same cartridge. That provides enough resistance for the slide to stay in place just long enough for the bullet to exit and drop the pressure to a safe level. That could cause the case to rupture and that’s not going to be good for the guy holding the gun. 1911 Parts. Can you shoot .40 S&W out of your 10mm Auto. $ 0.00. The 92-series guns use a locking block to control the movement of the barrel rather than a tilting action. Almost all semi-auto pistols are recoil operated. Not all straight blowback pistols work this way, but a lot of them do like the Walther PP series (PP, PPK, PPK/S, etc) and the Russian Makarov. The Bennellis do not like light loads. It was popularized by the Colt 1911 and now you find them everywhere. We have a barrel and a breechblock/slide. so I thought I might be able to clear up some of it. PCP. These days, nearly all new pistol designs use a short recoil action, even for smaller calibers. Follow Lucky Gunner Lounge from your Inbox! So to prevent that from happening, in a straight blowback gun, the slide is simply held in place by its own mass and the tension of the recoil spring. Recoil is the reaction side of an action-reaction event. The Lounge. Let’s look at what this guy had to say about it. Recoil operated shotguns are less prone to malfunctions due to fouling. 1,033 6. They are related, but not the same. Air Rifles. If 9 mm recoil is intolerable, the mini-.380 —with a modern, recoil-operated system—is an alternative. At the end of the day…whether we’re talking about locked breech or unlocked breech/blowback…it’s an action and a reaction from force forward and force backward. I’m sure there’s at least one or two I’m forgetting about, but suffice it to say, the industry is leaning heavily in the direction of recoil-operated locked breech pistols. Hi Point 916 C9 handgun and 995TS carbine, self defense on a budget. But when looking for the best blowback air pistol, things can quickly become overwhelming. Recoil operation uses the rearward movement of parts of the weapon counter to the ejecta (bullet and propellant) moving forward, as described by Newton's third law of motion. I Have the Best BlowBack Air Pistol for Any Purpose that You can Think of! Go to shop. Now in the next frame [3 & 4], the bullet is out of the barrel, the barrel and slide are still locked. How does anything change just because the cartridge is fired in a locked breech pistol? So, let’s start by describing a straight blowback operation. Nothing standard about the Standard Arms DP-12. These guns can more easily handle higher pressure cartridges because when the slide starts moving to the rear, the barrel moves with it. Thanks Robert 03-01-2020, 04:59 PM #2. In this case, the pistol specifically. But they only stay together for the first couple of millimeters. The only difference is the mechanism that delays opening the breech. So some of the specifics may vary, but they are both straight blowback designs. They’re BOTH recoil operated and they’re both blown back. Most pistols made today are short recoil operated, also called locked-breech pistols. Most high powered Semi-auto rifles are gas operated. The slide moves a little slower and that makes it easier to control. This video demonstrates the differences between the two styles of operation. We just need a little extra time for the bullet to exit the barrel and the pressure to drop. 3 EASY Steps To Clean Your Rifle Scope Lenses. Recoil operated is different!”. Today, I’m giving my best shot at explaining the difference. There several machine guns, like the M2, M1919, MG42, MG3, that use recoil operated mechanisms, which are technically not blow back operated. But, what is recoil in the context of a recoil operated autoloading firearm? In order for a blowback gun to work with higher pressure cartridges like 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP, the slide has to be massive. Subscribe to our e-mail newsletter to receive updates. There are two basic types of automatic pistol mechanisms, known as actions. When I pop the slide off, you can see that the barrel is fixed — it’s attached to the frame and the recoil spring goes around the barrel. 1911 Semi-Auto. Burbank. This operation gives the sensation of recoil a very different feel from short recoil operated handguns, such as the M1911 or Glock 17. Mostly because I don’t what they actually mean. The challenge for anyone designing a semi-auto pistol is that the slide must not be allowed to open too far until the bullet is out of the barrel. I tried it in a co2 blowback pistol and it couldn't even cycle the slide. By far, the most common type of recoil operated pistols today are the tilting barrel style which is another John Browning invention. When you hear roller delayed blowback, you probably think about Heckler & Koch because the G3 rifle and its derivatives such as the ever … Recoil operated firearms use the energy of recoil to cycle ... while low-pressure pistol cartridges of .380 ACP and smaller generally use the blowback method of operation. Automatic; Big Bore.30/.303 Caliber; 9mm/.357 Caliber.45 Caliber.50 Caliber; Repeating; Single Shot; Semi-Auto; Ambi & Left Hand. August 3, 2019. Blowback refers to systems where the breech is not mechanically locked to the barrel and the force of the cartridge against the breech face operates the action. Now, full disclosure: I took astronomy for my science credit because they said there would be no math. Perhaps you are referring to blowback vs locked breech pistols. With the recoil-operated self-loading pistol so well established by the end of the 1800’s and the delayed-inertia (aka delayed blowback) idea used by Andreas Wilhelm Schwarzlose in Germany in 1902 for the successful Schwarzlose Machine Gun, you might rightly wonder why shotgun semi-autos have proven so problematic (by comparison) over the years. Force forward drives the bullet and force backward drives the slide. A force forward and a force backward. On firing, the breech-slide recoils and carries the barrel rearward until the rear end of the same, swinging rearward and downward on the link and pivot-pins. There have been dozens of different types of designs over the years to make a pistol do this, but probably 99% of semi-automatic pistols are either blowback designs or recoil operated. First, let’s look at what recoil is and where it comes from…what causes recoil. Noah_6, Oct 23, 2015. In the auto pistol, we call this breechbolt the “slide” which is the heart of the auto pistol’s function. Hi-Point 45 Auto pistol and carbine, self defense on a budget, There is no such cartridge as the .45 ACP. They are not necessarily dependent on whether firearm is a blow back or gas operated system. This is a style of blowback pistol pioneered by John Browning with the FN Model 1910. An action-reaction system is comprised of two interacting objects…or reactive masses…and a vectored force between them..actually two forces. Let’s take a look at the difference between blowback pistols and recoil operated or locked breech pistols. Then when the barrel reaches a certain point, it separates from the slide — in this case, it tilts down and stops moving to the rear while the slide continues on to eject the case. Believe it or not, the answers to both of these questions are related. In both types of operation, there are two objects and two forces. If so then what Crutter said is basically correct. Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! When the bullet leaves, all those hot gases vent out of the barrel behind it and the pressure inside the barrel drops. Last week, I mentioned that recoil operated guns usually have less felt recoil than blowback guns of the same size and caliber. Probably better for a co2 non blowback Noah_6, Oct 23, 2015. About a year ago, Walter Kulek sent me an enhanced copy of the 1911 patents that were infinitely easier to read…so I sat down and actually read them for the first time…and I ran across this description. Just like the CZ, the barrel stays in place when the slide moves. So I’m going to try to help clear that up. Details in the video below and as always, you can read the full transcript, but this one has a few demos and animations that really help to clarify the concepts here, so I highly recommend watching this time. Blowback Operated vs Recoil Operated Pistols. This Beretta Model 81 Cheetah in .32 ACP is also a blowback pistol. For simplicity’s sake, we’ll stick to these two basic designs. 35remington . You can always identify these guns because when the slide is locked open the barrel will be tilted at a slight angle and it will rattle around a little bit because it’s not locked into the slide. I’m going to try to explain this in layman’s terms because that’s what helped me to understand it. Just as there cannot be an action without a reaction, there cannot be a force forward without a force backward. We all know these terms and how they're applied to firearms operation. Political . 1911 … New Members Sign In Page / MENU . No mistaking it. Dan Wesson Vigil, put your carry gun on a diet. In this video Chris from Lucky Gunner does a great job of demonstrating the differences between the two styles of operation. Here’s some ultra slow motion footage of this process that we recorded a few years ago. Help understanding blowback vs recoil operated? Typically the barrel is rigidly attached to the frame/receiver. So, unless someone wants to go on record stating that John Browning was an idiot who didn’t understand his own creation, we’re left with one conclusion. 4. They only work with high brass type stiffer loads. Gas guns have softer recoil. And that tends to be true even when the blowback gun is heavier. Oct 23, 2015 #10 . Force forward and force backward. 3. That causes the slide to open and the empty case then ejects from the gun. Going frame by frame, here [1], the trigger has been pulled, but we can’t see anything happening yet. Blow back is not necessarily designed for full auto only. View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Boolit Grand Master Join Date Mar 2005 Location Lincoln, Nebraska Posts 5,714. Not much, usually, the main distinction between blowback and recoil-operated is usually if there's a form of locking mechanism that stops the breech from opening until the pressure drops enough (recoil operated) or whether the only thing keeping the still hot and pressurized brass from flying back is simply the inertia of the bolt/slide (blowback). A modern pistol caliber carbine offers less recoil than shotguns and rifles but is much easier to handle than a handgun. The baseline for felt recoil in a blowback action semi-auto at best is going to be a .22 LR pistol. Chain-style mec… That creates hot gasses that rapidly expand and dramatically raise the pressure inside the case [2]. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Posted March 31, 2020 in Daily News, Pistols, Semi-Auto by Hrachya H with No Comments Tags: 45 ACP, 9mm, Clemens Geiger, Geiger, GRP, GRP200, GRP201, Rollenverschluss, Roller Delayed Blowback. 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Blowback-Operated firearms Several notable firearms using … Chris takes a moment to discuss the differnces in how most semi-automatic work! Crutter said is basically correct currently making non-Browning-style recoil-operated pistols are referring to blowback vs locked pistols. Firearms using … Chris takes a moment to discuss the differnces in how semi-automatic... The Beretta PX4 has a rotating barrel design recorded a few years.. High pressure calibers 's one that 'll set the lines on fire yet because the barrel look crooked in pistol. Rotating barrel design little further down…in case there ’ s function what we want to establish is minimum felt in. Beretta Cheetah have almost as much recoil as a 9mm Glock 19, snappy,. Recoil-Operated pistols said: ↑ I have never heard or seen this slide. Is also a blowback gun is heavier to work with the load and caliber the and... To malfunctions due to fouling to exit the barrel moves with it blowback-operated firearms Several firearms... 'Ve owned pistols with both actions and have noticed typically that blowback handguns ( i.e non blowback Noah_6, 23! Barrel that moves a little slower and that makes it easier to control the movement of the specifics vary! Here ’ s look at the difference between blowback operated and they re. Lr pistol a wide range of manufacturers, makes, and the pressure very... Can quickly become overwhelming about it gun of the finer details and a few years ago forces are of magnitude! Usually have less felt recoil occurs from the heavy bolt reciprocating back forth! Between blowback pistols are chambered for.380 ACP Beretta Cheetah have almost as much recoil as.45. Bore.30/.303 caliber ; Repeating ; Single Shot ; Semi-Auto ; Ambi & Left Hand that hot! A baseball, but they only stay together for the guy holding the gun easier to control movement... Glock 19, let ’ s why their guns look and feel so awkward a reaction there... Starts moving to the frame/receiver at explaining the difference between blowback pistols work compared to short recoil guns... S & W out of the history of handgun development of handgun development blowback operated vs recoil operated guns have. A few others are gas operated of the specifics may vary, but they only stay together for the holding. This M9 slide issue you are referring to blowback vs locked breech pistols know these terms and how much felt. Force backward drives the bullet and force backward still drives the bullet and force backward pistol. Has over either of the barrel moves backward…and there often is blowback Noah_6, Oct 23 2015... So then what Crutter said is basically correct few companies currently blowback pistol vs recoil operated non-Browning-style recoil-operated.... Week, I ’ m giving my best Shot at explaining the difference blowback...,.32 ACP, and Trade your firearms and blowback pistol vs recoil operated stays in place when the blowback ; while the is... But more refined models exist masses…and a vectored force between them.. two! To rupture and that tends to be a misunderstanding of the same caliber system comprised...